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Thread: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

  1. #21
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    Indilinx drives do support TRIM, OCZ and others had released beta drives with TRIM working, but there were other problems so they are still developing the firmware (complete rewrite). Which I think it is safe to assume will be released by end of October at latest.

    So I hope to see a kernel update that turns on TRIM at some point. From what I read it is disabled, and can be enabled in future once SSD support it(?).
    Last edited by andrewabc; September 28th, 2009 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    I found this article posted two weeks ago.

    ATA TRIM as an extension of the ATA command set. ATA TRIM basically checks the file allocation table on the drive for deleted files. Then it reorders and erases blocks on the drive. The down side to ATA TRIM is that it is operating system dependent, and currently, only Windows 7 and the latest distributions of Linux with the ext4 file system will support ATA TRIM.

    ATA TRIM also requires the complete ATA stack to support TRIM and SSD controller to support the TRIM command. TRIM is not supported in the G1 series of Intel X25-M SSD.
    So I guess the 2nd Gen Intel SSD Drives do support ATA-TRIM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    Quote Originally Posted by nhasian View Post
    I found this article posted two weeks ago.



    So I guess the 2nd Gen Intel SSD Drives do support ATA-TRIM.
    Yeah, so what's the consensus? Will karmic have it in effect?

  4. #24
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    Quote Originally Posted by nhasian View Post
    I found this article posted two weeks ago.

    So I guess the 2nd Gen Intel SSD Drives do support ATA-TRIM.
    Yes, I think most already know that TRIM won't work unless SSD firmware supports it. The question everyone has been asking is will TRIM work out of the box with ubuntu assuming SSD has TRIM firmware?

    Yes we know the kernel has TRIM support. But will it work without having to mess around with stuff? Can I install Ubuntu 9.10 final (October 31) to an SSD with TRIM firmware and ubuntu will know it is an SSD and possibly properly align it, and automatically do TRIM?

    @idigchess I'm as frustrated as you Might as well assume that neither will happen, and that it will all have to be manually done somehow. Hopefully some good guides are put up for SSD users.
    Last edited by andrewabc; September 29th, 2009 at 02:33 AM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    Quote Originally Posted by idigchess View Post
    Trim needs to be implemented at the OS level, not just at the kernel level.
    Ahh, I see.

  6. #26
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    So I guess the conclusion is: no, Karmic will not have out-of-box SSD support. Of course it will run (faster than your HDD) but there won't be special optimizations (TRIM, partition alignment).
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  7. #27
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewabc View Post
    Yes we know the kernel has TRIM support. But will it work without having to mess around with stuff? Can I install Ubuntu 9.10 final (October 31) to an SSD with TRIM firmware and ubuntu will know it is an SSD and possibly properly align it, and automatically do TRIM?
    kernel TRIM support is not completed and doesnt work. CFQ io-scheduler have optimized settings for SSDs, which are used if the SSDs reports rotating speed ~0. eg. my indilinx with 1711 firmware reports with hdparm:
    Nominal Media Rotation Rate: Solid State Device
    * Data Set Management TRIM supported

    there is a TRIM solution called wiper.sh in new hdparm packages:
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/hdparm/
    http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=60882

  8. #28
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    Ok. I completely wiped my SSD with SECURE ERASE. Here are the numbers:

    benchmark: dbench -s2
    Code:
    Baseline: (disk 75% filled; ~4 months of quite heavy usage)
    
    Unaligned, unqualified      10.3867 MB/sec max_latency=243.054 ms
    Unaligned, stripe-width=128 10.2559 MB/sec max_latency=248.230 ms
    Aligned, unqualified        11.9774 MB/sec max_latency=233.829 ms
    Aligned, stripe-width=128   11.9539 MB/sec max_latency=177.437 ms
    
    Post ATA SECURE ERASE:
    
    Unaligned, unqualified      10.2698 MB/sec max_latency=111.910 ms
    Unaligned, stripe-width=128  9.8834 MB/sec max_latency=105.029 ms
    Aligned, unqualified        10.9740 MB/sec max_latency=130.026 ms
    Aligned, stripe-width=128   11.1741 MB/sec max_latency=94.548 ms
    
    Post ATA ENHANCED SECURE ERASE:
    
    Unaligned, stripe-width=128   27.7824 MB/sec max_latency=79.726 ms
    Aligned, stripe-width=128     48.6741 MB/sec max_latency=62.098 ms

    Even though I was fed up with benchmarking I ran the last one twice. I just didn’t trust these numbers. I still find them astonishing. But anyway, this took a while. Especially the fumbling with sfdisk and fdisk, etc.

    Not TRIM, but there is a very definite improvement. Things like aptitude, make, etc, all that writes small files is much faster now.

  9. #29
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    I'm pretty sure after some research that the following is correct, YMMV.

    The second gen X25 drives do not yet support real trim in the firmware. Intel have said there'll be a firmware update to enable it before the end of the year. They won't be releasing an update to enable trim for the G1 apparently even though they could. However the G2 already have excellent 'used' performance that the other providers can't provide except the Indilinx 'pseudo-trim'.

    Currently no drives support real trim in firmware. As someone said the Indilinx based drives had a beta driver with support but it trashed data when the computer was put into sleep so they pulled it.

    There is a sort of offline trim available at least for the Indilinx drives where it does one big trim across the whole drive, which is useful, but it's not the same as the os/filesystem level trim reporting that'll be coming in future firmware updates.

  10. #30
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    Re: Will Karmic Koala automatically have trim in effect ...

    Quote Originally Posted by slight View Post
    Currently no drives support real trim in firmware. As someone said the Indilinx based drives had a beta driver with support but it trashed data when the computer was put into sleep so they pulled it.
    OCZ and I presume all Indilinx drives support TRIM.
    OCZ released new firmware October 13 that enables TRIM. They also released firmware with good garbage collection for OS that do not support TRIM.

    AGILTY and VERTEX FW update 1.4/1.41... VERTEX EX and AGILITY EX FW 1.3/1.31 EX
    1.40 is TRIM firmware
    1.41 is garbage collection (GC) firmware.

    I plan on upgrading my 60gb vertex to GC firmware before I format and install ubuntu 9.10 so probably very early November. The firmware upgrade is non destructive.
    Last edited by andrewabc; October 24th, 2009 at 02:21 PM.

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